Ep 134 Career: Tough Love for Your Portfolio: Stand Out or Stay Stuck

In episode 134 of The Crazy One, Stephen Gates dives into one of the most pressing challenges creatives face: navigating the job search. With many creatives either seeking new positions due to layoffs or dissatisfaction in their current roles, Stephen offers valuable insights on how to approach your portfolio, improve your job search strategy, and stand out in a competitive market. Drawing from his own experience and working as a hiring manager, he explains common portfolio mistakes, how to build a compelling personal brand, and why your approach to presenting your work matters. This episode provides a reality check and practical advice for creatives struggling with their job search, offering strategies to help you get noticed, get feedback, and ultimately land the job you want.

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Transcript

What's going on, everybody? Welcome into the 134th episode of the Crazy One podcast. As always, I'm your host, Stephen Gates. And this is the show where we talk about creativity, design, leadership, and a whole bunch of other stuff that matter to creative people. So before we get started again, as always, do me a favor. Subscribe to the show.

Leave a comment. All that stuff you've heard. 133 times before this. But with today's show, I've sort of been going down the list of just, you know, what are the most common questions I get for people? What are the things that I get asked the most? And look, I think it's a time when there's still a lot of people out there that are searching to be able to get a job because they they've been laid off.

A lot of people are unhappy in the job that they're at, and they're trying to find a new one. And I think for a lot of you, that job search probably is either not yielding the results you wanted or it's just not really yielding any results at all. And so a lot of the questions that I've been getting, as I've been doing the 80 plus mentoring and other things like that have really been revolving around kind of your portfolio where they want feedback on your portfolio.

What am I doing right? What am I doing wrong? We touched on this a little bit in the past, right? I did an episode in the past with sort of some of the red flags and some of those sort of things, but I guess for this show, I want to come at it from a little bit of a different angle, because what I want to be able to do is sort of give you the perspective of, from a hiring manager side of somebody that's going through and reviewing the portfolios.

How do we think about this? What are we looking for? Right. We'll cover again, like, what are some of those red flags and things that we go over? Because I think in a lot of cases, people either aren't aware of what the process is, they aren't aware of what really matters, or just candidly, I think I have to give this feedback a little bit too often.

They're just not putting in the work to stand out. So I think there's going to be a little bit of a tough love. I think hopefully this makes you reflect a little bit on maybe your own portfolio and those sort of things. But all done in a way so that you can hopefully get some better results, get either back into a job, get into a better position or to do something like that.

But but this is the problem is that I think, you know, normally in the job hunt, there is just a pervasive problem of just the lack of feedback in general. You'll apply to a job, you'll reach out. You either don't hear back, you get into the interview process, and then all of a sudden they ghost you. They it like it's a process I will never understand.

I can't tell you the number of companies that have probably missed out on great talent because I, or others have interviewed with them, had horrible experiences. We've had friends who have come seeking advice saying, hey, what do you think about that company? And our response is, for the love of God, please just stay far, far away from them for a lot of different reasons.

So it's a process. Look, it's another show and it's just I don't get it. But I think whenever it comes to your portfolio, and I think especially for creatives, that's a bit of a different animal because it's not just your resume, it's your resume and your book. And I think that that's can be such a subjective thing. It can be such, you know, a lot of different things that go into it that not getting feedback there just creates this whole other avenue of imposter syndrome because, like, the search is hard enough because you're already going through and saying, look, can somebody just basically validate the choices I've made in my life, in my career to

show me that they have value, to show that you think they have value, that you're interested in investing in me, it's just it's it's tough all around. But let's kind of pull back the curtain a little bit so that I think hopefully, maybe you can see your book in a little bit of a different way because I think for most heads of design and I went out and talked to a few other ones.

So it's not just based on my experience, but whenever we go through and look at your portfolio now, this could be looking at it online. And this could be if we're doing a case study review, this could even be in person. If you have a physical book, the process that basically anybody you're talking to is, is taking this process and kind of trying to look at a lot of little things or a lot of little indicators and trying to weigh out what are the strengths versus the red flags.

I think first and foremost, we need to call out that it's it's just a little bit of an insane process, right. Because you have spent years and years and years of doing work and investing every day and building this book and trying to do the best work that you can. And then somebody is going to come in and functionally judge that work in anywhere from ten minutes to an hour.

So what has to be condensed down into that is not fair, right? Like let's just let's just say that because it's such an abbreviation of such a body of work and thinking and a person. And there's a few things that I think we need to sort of call out for what goes into that one is that, you know, one of the biggest things that I've done for my book or that I think other books that I look at do really well, and this is mostly going to be more for if it's online or those sort of things.

Is that they really treat it like advertising that you want to show enough to say, look, this person is doing something interesting. This person is different. There is something here that I want to find out more about, because the most common mistake is that too many portfolios fall on either side of that. Either it's way too generic and way too abbreviate, because I think most people forget.

I'm not just looking at your book. I'm looking at 5 or 10 or 50 or 100 other ones. So, you know, there's nothing about you. There's not an about section. They don't really tell the story of their work. There's just a bunch of screenshots. Right. Like this is all the classic mistakes that people make. And you just look at it and go, I don't know what I'm getting or on the other side of it, you know, they it's like war and peace or it's like it's every project they've ever done since kindergarten.

It goes into an astounding and unnecessary amount of detail. So I think part of what it is is saying, okay, look, how do we find the right medium to tell this story? Because what somebody is doing is that they are going to look at your book and really and honestly, probably unfairly, try to look at what is in there and make it into a bit of a crystal ball, that what am I seeing here?

And what do I think that says about you? So if it's something where there is mistakes and there's typos or there's an image missing, or there's a link broken or something like that, I'm now trying to figure out, okay, if I hire this person, are they maybe not detail oriented? If I look at your resume or look at your portfolio?

And I've ranted about this for years, and there's one of those stupid sliders that's like, I'm 90% in Figma and I'm, you know, whatever it is, 70% in Photoshop. I'm going to look at that and go, okay, so this person just does stuff and goes with a trend and doesn't think it through because that makes no sense. Right?

Like what is 100% of Figma? What does that look like. What does that actually mean. Right. So I'm going to look at that and go, okay, there's a this person might not be detail oriented or they might not think through their work. I can keep going and we'll get into a few more of examples like this. But the reason why I'm highlighting this is because this is the thought process, is that we're taking these details, things that to you might seem minor or inane or not a big deal, but the reviewer is going to look at that and say, okay, what does this say about this person?

Because that's the thing to remember is that what we are reviewing, what we're trying to hire, is a person that we are trying to take indicators from your past to determine your future, and that is really difficult. And so I think that there's a lot of these sort of things where we're looking at this and trying to get an assessment of, is this somebody I want to talk to?

Basically, am I seeing more strengths than red flags? Does it look like they put in the work? Does it look like they've researched it? If you're book, is your ability to not have a client as an excuse that again, there's tons of people that I have interviewed and even hired that worked for really crappy companies who want to do really crappy work.

But you would look at their book and say, like, you know what? The work isn't great, but they really put in the work on their book, right? They really paid attention to the details, like, this is somebody because ultimately, this is what you're trying to decide. Is this a diamond in the rough who just hasn't had an opportunity?

Or is this somebody that this is just the level of their work? And so I think that's the hard part with a lot of this, is that we are looking at your thought process. We are looking at your attention to detail. We're looking at how do you think things through. Right. But all of these little things we're trying to take and project into, who are you as a person?

And because this is the thing that I always assume about my own book and my own sites and stuff like that, I don't ever assume anybody is going to make it off the homepage. I don't, honestly, I don't even assume they're going to scroll. And I think so many people are like, oh, well, on this like third or fourth page into the site.

Well, then there's where I tell the story. That's kind of incredibly naive to think they're going to make it that far. And the other thing that I always I'm very aware of is like, especially for me, right? And I've said this so many times, nobody, nobody would look at my career and tell you it was a good idea, right?

I've gone from agency to in-house to like being a consultant to starting my own thing. I've gone from again, from agency to hospitality to finance to wellness, did like a SaaS company to it. Nobody would ever look at that and be like, oh yeah, that makes sense. And so that I'm also very aware that the people that I'm talking to are trying to get a pay attention to me, do not take the time to connect the dots.

Right. If I just simply put that work out there. And I did it for years of saying, oh, you know what? They're going to make the connections. They're going to see what my skills are. They're going to see the diversity. They're going to see the thought. They're going to see the strategy. They're going to see these sort of things.

Right. The reality is they don't they don't. And I think even for somebody like me that has a platform and speaks on stages and does stuff like that, they don't. They should, they should. God knows they should. Right. But they don't. And again, I think the too many of us give too many people too much credit to think that they're going to take the time or they're going to read or they're going to look, because, again, if I've got 50 portfolios, I've got to get through, do I want to spend more time on it?

Yes. Do I need to make a first cut to decide who do I want to spend time on? Yes, but I think that's why, even for me, I try to be really clear about that narrative, like almost to a ridiculous extent of like, hey, this is what I do and this is what you should care about. Put it in big, tight, put it right up front.

But I think that there's a lot of this sort of stuff of where we all have the tools to create better portfolios. We all have the tools to create our own brands. The problem is, is that so many of us are so talented and so good whenever it comes to working on other people's business, other people's brands like you can look at it and go, hey, do this and this and this, but whenever it comes to us, oh, that's a different challenge, right?

I think part of what it is is that it's I know that I've struggled with doing my own portfolio of like, is this who I really am or is this who I wish I would be? It's hard to talk about yourself without it feeling like bullshit, right? It's hard to be able to to do those sort of things.

It's hard whenever we turn all those skills back on ourselves to be able to sort of leverage them in the same way. But I think it's almost like I think the best way to start to look at your book is like, can you develop almost like short term memory loss of like, if you didn't know you and if you looked at your book or those sort of things for the first time and said, look, what is this communicating?

Because that's really the process, right? Is that what we're doing is we're, you know, as an interviewer, we are going through and trying to find all of these little things that add up to something bigger and try to figure out what does it say about you. And that's a really hard process to be able to do, because like I said, a lot of these little details mean a lot.

But let's sort of like take a second and also kind of like work through. Why does this lead to some other things people may have questions about, or what can you do about it?

Now, I think when we talk about what can you do about it? I think we we do need to take just a quick moment. And create a little perspective and maybe a little bit of empathy for the people that are doing the reviewing, because I know that there's a lot of practices, whenever you go through this of presenting case studies, of doing, working sessions, which I know can be very, very polarizing.

But there's a reason why I think you're asked to do this stuff. And there's a lot of times when I get people who are like, look, you know, they should they should be able to tell from my work how good I am or what that is. Right? They should be able to, I've got to be honest.

Right. I think if you have that level of look, let let's not sugarcoat it. I think if you have that level of arrogance, you're gonna have trouble, because I think you need to think about it from the other side, that there have been plenty of times I've seen people with great books. There have been plenty of times I've seen people who say great things, and too many teams have been burned by bad hires of people who said great stuff and then couldn't deliver.

So I think it is also, it is important to find a balance whenever you're putting a portfolio together, talking about what you really did. Standing up for yourself, standing up for your values and whatever that is, but not over representing it because it's hard. And that's again, like, for me, the reason why I do creative exercises is because I need to make sure that it's real, because I've talked to too many people that are just B.S., I've talked to too many people that have a great book and an honest to God.

I think this is only going to get worse as more people have ChatGPT and other platforms write their portfolios for them, and everything sounds wonderful. Like that's why recruiters don't really care about cover letters. And a lot of this other stuff. Right? Because I think, you know, it's. It's hard to tell what's real, right? It's hard for me to look at a book and look at it with confidence that it should be as easy as me just looking at it and saying, the work is great, the person must be great, right?

I think that it's tough to be able to do that. It's tough to be able to. I don't want to feel that way. But again, I've been burned by too many people who went to the best schools, who were to the best places, who had the best books, and I put them into a creative review. I put them into a conversation or whatever that was, to find out that they were a part of a great team, but they weren't going to be able to deliver on what I wanted them to do.

Right. So I think that's why a lot of those things have come about is just because this is a really hard process and it's hard to know. And I think the more expensive the role gets and those sort of things. Right, like as a leader, there's I can't afford to miss, right. I can't afford to get it wrong.

I can't afford to burn that budget or screw up my team or bring in somebody that's going to be toxic or right. Like there's a lot that goes into that. But like I said, I think that this is why little details mean a lot. This is why it is important to think things through and to almost treat this like it is a design project.

And I think a lot of the things that I see people not doing are the things you should be doing. If you treated it like a design process, like whenever you're going to start actually working on your book, do some research. The number of people that I talk to whenever I say, great, if you're going to go apply for whatever a digital product designer role.

Have you gone into Google and put in digital product designer portfolio and looked at what your competition is? Have you done any sort of research? Have you done any sort of benchmarking? Have you looked at any of those sort of things to be able to, to even just understand what are you up against? I think some people do that because they don't want that amount of work.

They don't want to understand what the competition is. They don't want to sort of understand where their skills are like. It's an understandable fear, but that is not going to negate the reality of whatever you get out there into a job hunt, that you're going to be up against these other people, right? So put it in, whether it's for your area, put it in for something else, right?

Like do some research, create some benchmarks so you can have an understanding of what does good look like. Because I think if you're just creating it in a little vacuum and you're not looking at other work, it's incredibly hard to know. Is it good? Is it like middle of the pack better than average? What do I do? So look, just do some research.

I think the other thing a lot of this is, is that for me, your portfolio needs to tell a story. There is nothing that is a bigger dead end than looking at a book. That is just the results. Right? You go in and there's a case study and it's just, here's a bunch of screenshots in like two sentences.

I know everybody's not a writer. How I am I am a designer by profession and a writer by necessity. Right. So I get it. But your portfolio has to tell the story of you and your work. And the structure that I would recommend is, I think the story of you is who am I hiring? What are you good at?

What do you do differently? What are those sort of things? And then the case studies should be the support that goes through and explains and shows. Here is how it comes to life, right? If you tell me you're a great problem solver, if you're somebody, it's a great strategist. If you're somebody that does great visual identity, whatever those things are.

Right? Great. Tell me that's what it is. And then show me in the case studies again, don't assume that I'm going to go mine through every case study and go, oh, I think this person is good at what this is. If you're looking for a job, if you've been laid off, if you're trying to get out of whatever health situation you're in, you don't have time to be subtle, right?

You don't. You have to be able to say, look, this is what it is. Make it cut and dried. Show me that you can think it through. Show me that you know how to solve a process, right? Like, don't be like, oh no, no, people will take. They won't, they won't, should they? Yes. Will they know? Right. Harsh reality.

But tell me the story. Show me the process. Right again. Go back to the classic hero's journey. What was the problem? Who are you working with as you went along with what this was? What were the problems you had to overcome? What was the breakthrough you had? What was the outcome of what that was and then what were the results?

Right. Just simple, basic way of doing things. But actually like walk me through the work, show me some sketches, show me some stuff that did work, show me some stuff that didn't work. I probably hired more people or failed projects than like home runs, because I love when people can talk about what worked and what didn't, I you can talk about, you know, why this didn't work?

What did I learn from it? It's self-reflective. It's self-aware. A lot of the traits that I'm usually looking for, right? But again, I'm thinking about this as a storyteller. I'm thinking about this as a piece of advertising. I'm doing these sort of things whenever I go through it that I think is really important. The other thing that I would tell you to think of is like, look, this is a moment where the last thing you can be is generic, right?

And this is going to be where your brain is going to fight against you. Because, look, I know when you're in that moment, you've been laid off, you're looking for a new job. I can't stand working for this, boss. One more day. I can't do it. I can't do it right. And you're like, look, I want to go out there, and I just.

I want to appeal to everybody. I want to go out and like, I don't want to miss an opportunity. I don't want to like, I want to be able to get everything. Your audience is not everybody. Nobody. No brand, no person's audience. Is everybody. Right? And the problem is, if you're going to go out and you're going to be that generic and that unfocused, you're going to appeal to, you guessed it, nobody.

I don't know what I'm getting, I don't know. And that's the you know, that's the hard part is I look at these books and it's like, oh, here's a bunch of digital product design, here's a bunch of photography, and here's a bunch of illustration, and here's my freelancing. And here, like, look, I love the diversity. I love what that is.

I don't know who I'm hiring. Right. What is your real passion. What what is it that you want to do? Like again, I love that you have that skill set, but whenever it's just sort of like, here's this firehose of stuff, I'm probably going to move on to the people or I'm going to get a better sense of like, okay, what is there?

Focus. It doesn't mean you can't work on all that stuff, but just help me understand how is it prioritized, how is it weighted, how are you doing those sort of things? And I think the other thing to think about when we talk about not being generic is also find ways to not be like everybody else, you know, look, some of the most impactful reviews, some of the most impactful portfolios that I've seen lately have been are people who just said, like, you know what?

Everybody has a portfolio. Everybody has like an intro written by ChatGPT. What I've been interested in is like, I've seen more and more people who are so smart because what they'll say is like, hey, instead of me showing you a case study about this project, can I just show you the figma? Can I just show you like the work?

Can we can I just show you what that is? Because to me, that is so smart. Because it answers all of the questions that I'm looking for of, like, does this person really know what it is they're doing? Are they really in control of their work? Or is this just a really good presentation? Because like, look, you pull up a figma file, you show me the work you do, whatever it is, you can talk about that error state.

You can talk about why you did something. You have a graveyard of designs that didn't work. I have a complete understanding of who you are as a creative. I have a complete understanding of who you are and can art like in that sort of control. So I think a lot of what it is, is like, look, don't also fall into the trap of just thinking like, okay, they want to see one, two and three.

So I have to do one, two and three. It's just again, if you want to stand out, you can't be generic. And sometimes falling into what that structure is can be generic. But look, there are times whenever you're going to talk to people, you're going to talk to companies, and they're going to want you to say, okay, look, you know, submit a resume, then submit a portfolio, and then do a case study and then do a work session.

So great, right? They're going to want you to be able to do that. It doesn't mean though that you have to go in there and sort of just go blindly into that process because again, I think so many people that whenever they go in there, whenever it comes time to present your case studies or to present your book or to do those sort of things, they miss out on such amazing opportunities to differentiate themselves from everybody else.

Right? One of the things that I do, whatever I'm in this situation, one of things I love whenever other people do one is like whenever you go in to try to talk to somebody, you're not psychic, sorry, you're not right. And everybody's like, I don't know, how much should I show? What should I show, what should I focus on?

Like, I'm going to try to do this. I'm not sure what they want to see. Here's a thought. Ask just a thought. But whenever you actually go in and say, hey, what's the sort of stuff that you're going to be interested in today? Do you want to see a lot of detail? Do you just want to see more of the high level strategy?

You just want me to focus on one project and go really deep on it. Do you want me to sort of, again, just kind of go over the tops and make it a little bit more generic and give you a broader view on things, right, like what's going to you know, what's the stuff that you're interested in? Again, shows self-awareness, shows problem solving, shows a lot of the sort of traits that that I think that people are going to be looking for.

And I think even I have really underestimated that at times, because last time I got laid off wasn't the smartest about it. Right? Should have given myself probably a little bit more of a beat between when I got laid off because I got the news on Thursday, I got laid off on Friday, and Monday I'm like, I'm back on the market.

That should have lasted a little bit longer. But what was interesting was the number of companies that reached out on the number of people and even the number of clients that I have now who had reached out because they just said, look, just we'd love the way that you handle that, right. There's a level of self-awareness, there's a level of leadership, there's a level of just way of working like that.

We want more of what that is. So you need to remember that even as the way you handle yourself as you go through this is part of the product that they are buying functionally. Right. And so again, I think don't be psychic, say, okay, look, you know, hey what what were those sort of things. What are you interested in.

Also understand that look what's the biggest problem with this process. The biggest problem is I'll go through and do the presentation, and I just get a generic call from a recruiter who says, hey, we're going with another candidate. Thanks. Is there any feedback? Yeah. No, I don't know. I'll go back and ask him and I'll let you know.

And then you never hear from them. Right? So lack of feedback and your ability to get better and more focused is one of the biggest problems that you're up against. Great. So understanding that one of the things you could do is then build some time in in a conversation whenever you can. Even hell, you can even do it over email just saying, look, can you do you have any feedback?

What did you think I did really well? What were the things you think I could work on? What was stuff you wished I had talked about? Again, I there's several people who have been on my teams in the past who save the bad interview with just that question because I'm like, well, look, you know, I really wish you would have talked about this.

I really wish you would have. Could we go in more detail about this and then, you know, look, maybe it was nerves, maybe it was whatever it was. Then all of a sudden we start to have a different conversation. I'm starting to get more of what I want. I'm starting to look at them in a little bit different way because they're open to feedback, which I love.

But again, I think, you know, look, knowing that that is such an Achilles heel in this process, don't let it be right. Say, hey, whenever you go in there and say, in the beginning, what what are you interested? What do you want to see? You know, what's the stuff you want me to talk about at the end, you know, how do you think that went right?

What was good? What do you think I could work on if I had to do something on my book, what could that be? But that's really what I just want people to walk away from this episode with. Right? Is is understanding the perspective because look, just like any great look, just like any great design, you've got to think about your audience.

You've got to think about the impact. You've got to think about, like just doing something that checks a box or doing something that looks pretty doesn't get it done. And especially whenever it comes to your future and it comes to your career and it comes with these sort of things, right? Like you have got to make like success is a choice.

The people that do the work get the results. Even in this economy, even in this state, even in this sort of thing, the people that that do the work get the results. And if you're feel like you're doing the work and you're not getting the results, maybe it needs to be a little bit different work. Maybe you need to get a little bit more feedback.

You need to get a little bit more perspective. You need to be able to figure out sort of what that stuff is of like, okay, how do I break through? And keep pivoting until I'm able to find a way that it's going to work? Because I think that's, you know, look, I talked this in the past. This is the thing that, you know, look, I'll be honest at this.

Maybe at this point in my career, whatever it is, this is the thing that pisses me off. Everybody wants results and nobody wants the work. Yeah. The number of young designers who come to me and say, Steve, like, you know, look, what's the secret, right? Like, how do I, how do I get this sort of clients or how do I do this stuff?

Or how do I get this book right? Like, what's the secret?

It's such a depressing question, honestly, because the problem's in the question. You think there's a shortcut, you think there's a way to get around it. You think that there's a way that like, you know, the world owes you something, or that there's a. Yeah, again, I think asking for an insight or asking for a way to not step on a landmine somebody else did is one thing.

But saying, look, how do I get around doing the work? You're going to be in for a real frustrating career. And it's tough, right? It's tough. There's a lot of people I have conversations with who they've applied to 300 jobs and gotten no results. Right. And look, there's a lot of people who are doing the work and are getting that same sort of thing.

But the number of times that I have to talk to people and say, like, look, you're putting in the minimum amount of effort and asking for the maximum results. I. You know, I, I still struggle with, I think with a lot of stuff with my mental health and things like that, that keeping that imposter syndrome in balance. Right.

I still try to hustle like I've never made it. I still try to hustle like I've never done anything. I still try to put in the work and do the thing and pay attention to the details and do a lot of that sort of stuff. And, you know, know that how you treat people matters and does a lot of these sort of things.

But I think that's the part of it, is that. I just, I really believe and maybe this is naive, right? Maybe I'm a little out of touch, but I really believe that. Right. Like game recognizes game. Whenever I look at a book where somebody cares, whenever I look at work and I look at the way somebody presents themselves, where they're trying to be open and vulnerable and thoughtful around what that is and think through the problem and you can feel it, right?

Just like anything else. You can feel that in that work it comes through. And I think that's the thing is just, you know, you there's not a way that I know, at least right now in this sort of industry outside of like, honestly, networking or someplace where somebody can go, oh, I've worked with this person. Let me vouch for them, which sort of softens the beachhead for you.

But you have to take that time and that sort of empathy of just sort of creating this object without the thought of the audience that's doing it, without an understanding of what they are going through, without understanding the context and setting the benchmarks, without doing the research, without doing these sort of things right. Like those are all the sort of things that you're going to have to do to invest the time, because the number of people that are that say like, look, Steve, I really hate my job.

And it's like, what are you doing about it? It's like, oh, it's just so much work. And it is, it is. Right. Like, let's not sugarcoat it. It is start somewhere. Right? One of the things I recommend people do, and whenever I do this stuff, like pick 1 or 2 nights a week and say, okay, look, every Tuesday and Thursday I'm going to spend an hour or two hours or whatever it is to start to put my book together or to get things better, or to do some research, or to constantly look at sort of what that is, because I am the one who is responsible for my success.

And again, this has been a constant theme of this show. There is such a profound difference in the way you move through your career in the difference between taking what the industry will give you versus taking what you want, and that asks for self-reflection. It asks for hard work, it asks for a lot of those sort of things.

But look, I think, again, remember, discomfort is only like, you know what you want is on the other side of what you don't want to deal with. But I think that this is the feedback that you don't get, right. This is why, like whenever people look at those little those little details, they look at those sort of things, or they can see you're not thinking things through.

They just go, oh, okay, thanks. And then they don't call you back. Right. Because it's and look, I think for those of us who are the ones that do the reviewing for those are us who are in the place to be able to do the hiring, step up right way more often. Take the time to give the feedback.

Take the time to give the uncomfortable conversation. Tell them what they could do, that even if they're not going to get the job right now. What they could do to get it in six months, I can't again, can't tell you the number of phenomenal talent who maybe it wasn't right already in that moment, but again, if you can see something with what that is, take the time.

I know it's just easier to move on. I know that there's a million things to do, but I swear to God, if we don't stop like this, stupidity of thinking that people are disposable and that they're just resources and they don't matter. Like you want to know why you don't have better people on your team. You want to know why people don't stick around.

Look in the damn mirror, right? That's why. That's why treat them like people. Treat them like you've been in that chair before, right? Take just a minute and put the shoe on the other foot and think, how would you feel if you got treated the way you just treated somebody? If you feel good about it, great. Keep doing that.

But if you don't understand that, like I said, you are part of the problem too. And again, I think for too many of us just there is that willful, naive ness, right, of just like, oh, well, this is a part of the process that we all hate. And this is the thing, right? If you want to create a change, model the behavior you want don't don't criticize what you don't.

But step up, give them the feedback. Have the hard conversation. Tell them what to do better. Tell them what they're missing. Right. It's an opportunity. Even if you're not going to hire them. It's an opportunity for you to have a positive impact on somebody. And damn it, isn't that what this industry needs right now? But just think about that sort of stuff, because I think then if you do that on both sides, we're going to start ending up in a better place and you're going to find more success.

So hopefully that was helpful. Right? Look, there's always, you know, if you want me to look at your book, if you want me to give you that's what honest feedback again I'm do three sessions every week on ADP list. You know you can reach out to me on social media platforms and other stuff like that. But take the time and think about this stuff.

Go back and look at your book with fresh eyes and say, look, you know, am I really doing this sort of stuff? Am I thinking about it? Am I again constantly pushing for it to get better, to be able to do that? It's hard. It's vulnerable. Right? I think it's a difficult process as it is, but I also think that there is no better way to fight imposter syndrome, to fight some of the pressure on those sort of things than finding ways to create some hope, create some control, and believe in yourself.

So as always, I hope this was helpful. I love to hear from you if you have any thoughts around this sort of stuff, and I will be back with more shows in this sort of area in the near future. So until then, stay crazy.