Ep 6 Career: How to create a strong and effective personal brand

In this episode of The Crazy One, Stephen Gates delves into the essential question: What makes you stand out as a creative professional? If you’ve ever wondered how to differentiate yourself in a crowded field, this episode is for you! Stephen uncovers the obstacles that often hinder personal branding and highlights the immense power and significance of cultivating your unique identity. You’ll learn two effective techniques to kickstart your personal brand, empowering you to showcase your individuality and strengths. Tune in to discover how to leverage your uniqueness and carve out your niche in the creative world!

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What's going on everybody, you have found your way into the sixth episode of The Crazy One podcast. I'm your host, Stephen Gates. And this is the podcast where we talk about creativity. We talk about leadership, design technology, and a whole host of other things. And before we start the show today, I just wanted to stop and ask for a quick favor. So I'm the only person that works on this show. And I work on it in what little amount of free time that I have. And my goal is that I always and will always keep this show free. But just this once, I'm going to ask for a little bit of payment, a little bit of good karma. And so Have you listened to any of these episodes of the show, if you'd like them, if you feel like you got something out of them? What I would ask is, it would really appreciate it. If you would just take one minute, two minutes to go into iTunes and leave a review for the show. Because as you know, as just like with any app or god forbid any restaurant on Yelp, reviews matter, and so the more of them that are there. The more traction and more people can listen to this show, the more the message can get out. And ultimately, that's why I'm doing this. And it's like I said, that's the only payment I'm ever going to ask for. So if you could just do me that favor, take a few minutes, go over, leave a review, be incredibly grateful. So we've talked about leadership, we've talked about creativity, we've talked about what's going on with design, and in a listener question show, and where do we go from here? And so you know, I've gone out and I've asked on social media and LinkedIn and emails and a bunch of other things, what are some of the topics that people want to hear about? And one of the biggest ones that comes back is to talk about career development. How do you get better at your career? How do you improve how do you progress? And so we're going to do a couple shows, probably somewhere around three or four. We'll see how it goes. Just talking about career development. And I'm going to talk about this from two different perspectives. One is just being somebody Who has turned his life into a fairly successful career. But also, as somebody who has sat across the desk from hundreds, if not thousands, of people, doing interviews, has led teams of hundreds of people coaching on them on their careers, has looked at 10s of thousands of resumes, and a whole bunch of these different things that come with career paths and career growth. And so the thing is that whenever I do this, over all the years that I've done it, I tend to see the same problems time and time and time again. And so whenever you want to talk about career development, I think it's it's gonna be really tempting for us to run in to talk about the artifacts of it to talk about a resume or doing an interview, or how to put together your design portfolio or how to do all these things that that are the visible parts of this process. But to be honest, I think like with so many other things, I think that we need to first start by kind of Looking at, well, what's the root of what's going on here? And why are these different things failing? Why are people struggling? Why are their resumes not getting calls back? Why are interviews not going well? Why are people not getting the jobs that they want? And I think that what we really have to look at is the foundation beneath that. So this show is going to be dedicated to just talking about your personal brand. And so for those of you who might be tempted right now to switch to a different podcast, or turn it off, because you think to yourself, I'm not a designer, this has nothing to do with me. Please stop, because branding is not a logo. That's a visual identity. And there are a lot of people, a lot of very important executives, who get those two confused, that no matter what you do, if you're a designer, a writer, a project manager, a plumber, an accountant, you have a personal brand, you have something that you stand for, and that's what we're going to talk about today is To try to figure out, how can you figure out your personal brand? How can you tell your story, because if you can't do that, if you can't get this clear, then everything else is going to struggle, your resume isn't going to get chosen, your interviews aren't going to be good. Your portfolio's gonna not gonna get looked over. And honestly, you may not even be doing as well as you could be in the job that you have now. So, we're gonna start there. And I've talked before about the fact that I was really lucky that I started in design at a very young age. My father was a creative director. My mother made soft sculpture toys for kids so that she stayed home and to be able to work with me. So I grew up in an incredibly creative environment. One of the things that that let me do was that it led me realize it from a pretty young age, that if I just was going to be a designer, if I just was going to be somebody that only did something, and that was all I was going to be known for. It honestly wasn't going to take me very far. And by Before I probably even knew what branding was, before I even could articulate it or understand it, I knew that I needed to start to stand for something, I knew that I needed to be a brand. And I think that, you know, it's something that I've worked on constantly since. And I think that there are probably four reasons that I really, if I sat down and think about it, four reasons why this is important, and why I think everybody should take the time to do this. And the first reason is that I really think that if you have a personal brand, that it really gives you control and it gives you power over your image. Because, you know, if you're a person that's well connected and trusted by your customers, your peers, your co workers, you're more likely to be respected by your employer. And this is this weird dance that we have to do between a personal brands. So me being Stephen Gates, and what does that mean? And then the companies that I work for the teams that I lead, and how do I balance the two of them? And I think that this is one of those things where I think, and I think that I have proven that you can really achieve professional autonomy by creating a brand that proves your value, and proves that you really are an expert no matter what it is that you do. Because this is the challenge is that at the end of the day, companies want people that bring value, they want people that people have heard of, they want people that have a brand that they can point to for the places they've done the things that they've worked, but at the same time, you also then have to be able to kind of meld that into the company culture because if you don't, that's called a diva. That's called an egomaniac that's called somebody who's just out for themselves. So it can be a bit of a tricky balance to walk. But I think that you know that first and foremost really is the most important thing because your brand is portable. I am somebody who has been laid off from two of my last three jobs and What the first layoff taught me was how important this is. Because my brand carried from job to job, and that's why I constantly work on it. I think that some of my employers sometimes will get very nervous because even in the best of times, they'll see me working on my portfolio site posting articles on my blog, starting things like a podcast. Well, the reason why I do that is to work on my brand. Because I think that a strong professional can be a part of a strong team, they can be part of a strong company. And they can also figure out how to walk the line between the two of those where they can be an individual that has a voice. And if we're used, right, that can become a huge asset for them. I think that the other thing that obviously a brand does, is that it improves your visibility. And I think that there's some people who I know some very, very smart people who think that avoiding a social media presence altogether is the answer that you know, there's no information is really good information. But the challenge with that is, is that I think just simply in the world that we live in, that you're not going to be better off by doing that, that you need to think about. What is your network? What is your social presence? Because if you don't, I think that you're really limiting yourself. Because social media, and it's bigger than just social media. But I think that tends to be the most common expression of personal brands these days. But I think that it really is to show you know the professionalism and the value that you bring in your industry that you can demonstrate insight and expertise. You can build a following. You can do all these things. And this visibility, I think, can do a couple things. I think one is that it has led to some of the most fantastic experiences and unexpected experiences in my life have come out of doing things like this. It's allowed me to travel the world and speak at places I never imagined that I would go to. And it's given me a serious professional advantage because of the fact that in a very small group of people If you say my name, people recognize it, they understand what it stands for they, they've heard of me, and that carries weight. And I think that any kind of advantage like that, you have to have. And this is what a brand does just the same way, if you think about it from a consumer brand, you want to get name recognition, you want to have people understand what the value is, you want to stand out from everybody else. And I think that this is what a personal brand can do, as well as just because it gives you this ability to really tell the world what you're all about. And I think that the other thing that it really does, is probably a lot more selfish, because one of the things that I've used personal branding for and the reason why I've done it over the course of my career, is that it has really helped me define where I want to go and what it is that I'm doing because without that path without that direction. I think you can easily get stuck. Like one of the interview questions that I'll ask people most often that I'm always shocked, doesn't have a very redell ready answer to it is where do you want to go in your career? Where do you want to go with this thing? And so often they just kind of go, Oh, I just want a great job or I just want to do something fun or whatever it is. I have never approached it that loosely, I guess. Because for me, I think that it really is to kind of help me define what is the vision of what I want to go towards, and then to be able to look at what I'm doing and say, am I moving in that direction or not? That it is aspirational, that it's where I want to be in that kind of near distant future. But it gives me a guideposts to be able to work towards, because I think it's very easy to get lost in the day to day it's very easy to get lost in the little problems and the little victories and the little things that make you feel like you're making progress, but if you ever stop and step back, and often I think this is why you'll see events like a midlife crisis or things like that is it people it requires these big life moments for them to step back and go You know what, this isn't what this was supposed to be I'm not going in the right direction. And I think that this is where a personal brand very selfishly can help because it allows you to have a process of constantly just checking in on your progress, and to look at am I moving my career in the right way. And I think that the other thing that it really does is I think that a personal brand will help set you apart from everybody else. Because you can really show off what matters to you. Because you know, your brand really becomes about your skills, your interests, the things that you're interested in. And it's not just your job, your brand is not your job. Like this is what drives me crazy. Whenever I see resumes and things like this, and all people do is they just list the places they work, the places you work or not your brand, the places you work or not you they are an expression of it. They are a container for it. But they aren't you. And I think that you have to really be able to take this look at things and understand what matters, because those things are going to change. And this is why your brain has to change the same way that it If you think about whatever the brand is, you love the most Apple for me, Apple in the 80s, the 90s, the 2000s. And today is a different brand. It looks different, they used to be a rainbow. And now it's a single color Apple, it used to sound very different because it used to try to be the underdog brand. Now it's much more of the big kid on the block that there's a so much of it that's changed over that time. And you as a person are no different. Who you were 20 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago, one year ago, is different. And it changes and so your brand has to reflect that. And so that's why I said is I think those are just some of the arguments I would make for why this is an important thing to do. Because all of these things from an outward professional standpoint and an inward development standpoint are critical to being successful. So that being said, What are going to be some of the common problems when you build a brand I think that the first one is, and this is the one that I see all the time is that people decide to build their brand, or to build their network, when it's too late. They build it whenever they've lost a job. They build it, whenever they're unhappy with their job. They build it whenever, you know, they decide they want to move or graduate from school. And only then do they say my brand is important. My network is important. Well, the problem is, is that it's far more difficult and far less impactful if you build a brand like that. Because what you need to do is you have to do it over a prolonged period of time in you have to do it with some foresight to understand this. Because the reality is, is that to build a network that's effective to build a brand that's effective, again, is no different than a consumer brand. You constantly have to work at it. You have to build your network. You also have to go out and talk to people, because you're doing it for the time when you're going to need it. You don't always know when that's going to be. And that's what I said, this is something that I've learned being laid off twice, is that in both cases, these were not things that I saw coming. There was not a big red blinking sign that said, Hey, this week, you're gonna get laid off. And you know what, you should probably start building your network. Now what happened was, in both cases, I got a phone call and said, Hey, your jobs gone, come in at the end of the week and clean out your stuff. And that was it. In that moment, I had decided to start building my network. If in that moment, I had tried to decide that my brand was important. I would be months behind the eight ball, to take the time to get my resume right to get my site up and running to be able to get brand credibility would take months if not years to do. And this is the hard part because the reality is is that you have to invest in this stuff. Not even knowing if you're ever really going to need it. But when you do, man are you glad that you did because It just it takes time to build up this brand equity. So I think that's the first most common mistake that I see people do is that they just feel like oh, well, I'm going to start building my brand whenever I need it. And that's just not going to be successful. Because the other reason why here's something to think about, is that your brand matters for the job that you have today, the job that you have right now, how well you can tell your story, how well you can express your value to your boss, to your team, to your company matters today. It matters if you're going to get your next raise or your promotion or anything else like that. So that again, I think that you have to think about and realize the fact that there's more than just one reason why this is important. The next problem that I see a lot of people have is that most people have no idea who they are, and what makes them different. This is time and time again, people send me their resumes and they will say Hey, Steve, can you look at this and can you give me some some feedback, they send me their portfolio, same thing. I should have this written up someplace. So I can just copy and paste it. Because what I see is these stories that are filled with this generic business speak these overused cliches, just this crap, that you know what they're big words, they're $3 words, they look really impressive. But ultimately, they don't say anything. They don't tell their story. There are three or four generic sentences that anybody in their given profession could use, followed by a list of the places that they've worked, that are forgettable before you finish reading them. And they have no idea how to stand out. And I think this is one of the biggest single problems why people need to spend the time to think about personal branding is to try to solve the simple question of why are you different. And the third reason, and we've talked about this before, whenever we talked about About the creative process, we talked about leadership and a whole bunch of other things that there's really not going to be a magic bullet to creating a personal brand, because of the word personal. Because this is the challenge, right is that it has to come from you that it has to be the personal insights and you putting in the time to get it right. Because it has to be a reflection of you. It has to be a reflection of your story. If you hear my brand, if you read it anywhere, it will talk about Hi, I'm a second generation creative director, how I started my education on a cast iron letterpress in my parents basement. I grew up cutting Ruby lift I started in design before they're even computers. These are the things is this old school background with a new school execution of the person who understands where design came from, but at the same point is actively working on where it's going. That's my brand. That's not your brand. Your brand is something else your backstory is something else. So with that Where do you start? Sounds great that you need a story. It sounds great that you need to be different. But But how do you start? And so I think that honestly, to take this problem on, I think you've got to take a step back. And you have to think about yourself like a brand. Because I think you have to be able to express what are your core values? What's your voice? What's your image? What's your differentiator, the same way any brand? Would I treat myself just the same way with any of my clients? And it takes a bit of this strange short term memory loss, this kind of mental trick where you can step back and say, okay, Steve, if you didn't know, Steve, if you had never seen him before, and you looked at his work, and you looked at where he came from, what's the story that you would tell? It sounds sort of insane, it sounds my least gets a phrenic even to say it out loud. But I think it's the only way that you're able to do this is to be able to step back and say, Okay, if I met me for the first time, what would I want the takeaway to be? What What I want the things to be able to be that people would know about that they would walk away with. And I think that this is where you have to start by defining why you're different. So I think that, you know, the first thing to think about is what are the roots or the foundation of your brand? Why did you get into this business instead of another one? What are the values that drive you? What's your personal style? What makes you different? These are the things whenever I answer them, they talk about my childhood, they talk about my loves, they talk about different things like that. And so I think that there are two different ways that you can try to tackle this problem. One is a way that I personally use another way, is a technique that I work with my clients on. And the one that I've used is that over the years in Evernote, there is a document in there. That's just called personal mantra. I'm sure that there is a better word than mantra to be To use for this, I guess I'd that's just the one I've always used that always sounds I don't know what to business school speak or something but, but it's just what it says and whenever you go in the document starts with two simple words. And all it says is I am. And what it does is it is a document that really is something where I've taken the time to sit down and try to think about and write out. What are the things that matter to me? What are the things that make me up? What are the things that if I had to try to distill myself into sentences, these would be the sentences that would be the things that I would want us to describe me. You can even go morbid with it and say, if this was your funeral, if people were getting up to give the eulogy, what would be the things they would say about your work? So maybe that's a different way to say if you're going to eulogize your work, what would you want people to say about it? It sounds incredibly simple, right? Just to say I am Then fill out a bunch of statements. And the first time I started it, I thought it was going to be incredibly simple. And I sat down and and a half an hour had written out a whole bunch of them. And thought, Well, that was easy and let it sit. And the funny thing happened a little bit later on that night, some of the things I wrote back, I wrote down, I started to go back and think about and I started to think, Well, you know what, you know, those could probably be a little bit different, it could be a little bit better, they should be a little bit stronger. And at the end of it, I found that it took me honestly, probably almost a month to get these statements to a place where I was really happy with them. Because it took time to think about this. It took some self reflection, it took a bunch of effort on my part to sit down and think about who am I? How often do you do that? How often do you actually take the time to just look at yourself and say, Where am I in my career? Am I happy? I think that that alone is a question that for so many creative people is so incredibly hard to answer. Do you know how to be happy? It's one that I've asked people who have worked for me and they've come back days later telling me they were not able to sleep, because that question messed them up so much. But I think these are the things that you have to think about are what are the things that make you up and are important to you? In a really honest way? Not in the on the surface, what do I think people want to hear sort of way. But in the genuine deep down, these are the things that really matter to me. And if I base my career on this, I'm going to be successful and happy sort of way. So I'll give you two examples of just some of the sentences that I had on there. So one of them said, I am someone who understands and excels at the creative business and political challenges that are a part of effecting change in the culture and thinking of a company. fairly dense sense. A lot going on there. But like I said, as I think that whenever I wanted to think about in one sentence, how do I define the impact that I want to have when I go to work every day? That was the sentence or the best sentence That I could come up with to express that. Another one. I am someone who loves being on the edge of technology and is able to extract trends, and then translate them into innovative experiences that move customers. So again, maybe it sounds a little to Business School Business speak ish. But that's something that I really love. I love not just being the person who can come in, take a technology and make a pretty screenshot for it, but actually want to translate that into something meaningful, I want to ship it, I want to see it go out the door. And so that's one way of doing things. And I will admit to this, what that one probably is a little bit of the harder way of doing things. It's a little bit of a longer way of doing things. It requires you to be more honest, it requires you to be a bit more more self reflective. And it can be a bit of a challenge, but that's why I said that's the one that works for me. So that's the first option. The second option is one that I use with clients. A lot of times whenever I'm building brands, Because in a lot of cases, sometimes you need a bit more of a thought starter. And I think that if you're going to do that, if you need a thought starter, the thing that I've always turned to is really a construct that goes back to the Greeks. And the way that they used to tell stories and about a lot of their mythology, and it's the idea that there are certain archetypes for characters, that if even today, if you watch movies, read books, you watch TVs, most characters can ultimately be boiled down to one of a few handful of different archetypes, the way that they act the way that they feel. And there's a bunch of different systems for doing this stuff. If you want to, you can go to Google type in brand archetype. If you go to images, I'm sure you'll see 100 different images, you'll see a ton of different articles. And most of the time these will range somewhere between 12 and 20 different archetypes and so what I'm going to do is if you are interested in doing this technique. I'm going to put the full list that I use in the show notes. So go to podcast, Stephen Gates comm go to episodes, look for Episode Six, and in the notes there, I'm going to list all of these out. But there are 20 that I use, which I know sounds like it might be a little over the top or a little bit in the same, but I feel like those are the ones that I think are the most robust and are the ones that I found to be the most successful. So I'm going to quickly run down through the list of the 20 and then I'll try to explain what one or two of them might be so you could kind of get an idea of how this works. Some of the archetypes could be the Explorer, the defender, the thrill seeker, the achiever. The traditionalist the nurturer, the connector, the artist, the centralist, the servant, the philosopher the dreamer, the motivator, the ruler, the maverick, the every man, the innocent the entertainer, the villain and the intellectual So there's a lot in there. And I'm assuming that while you're listening to that, one or two of those immediately might just have jumped out at you that you those might have been words that you kind of said, you know what I identify with that. And I think we'll get them back to that in a second try to kind of break down the system, but just Well, I'm gonna do two quick examples. So one would be like, if you look at a brand like Nike, Nike is an achiever archetype, because what they're really all about, is how to communicate that you know what their goal is to help their customers achieve these amazing things, these amazing acts of athleticism and to become better athletes and better people. So for them, they're really all about being the achiever. This is just do it. Obviously, you know, just really crystallizes that statement. Whereas if you took a different brand, other end of the spectrum, we'd say something like Victoria's Secret, they would probably understandably be something like a centralist archetype, because they want to make their customers feel pure enjoyment through physical experiences, whether it's the way that they think Feel whenever they wear their clothing, the way it makes their partner feel. But it really is about invoking that sort of essential emotion. And so I think that the best way that I know to do this is to go in, print out the show notes when whenever you go in and find that page, print them out, or take them and throw them into a Word document. But basically make it so that each one of those is on a strip of paper or a card or something that you can sort through and lay out all 20 of them in front of you. And one at a time. Pick up two of them. Read the first one, read the second one, decide out of just those two, which do you identify with more strongly, the one that you don't identify with, put to the side, hold on to the one that you identified with more out of that process and pick up a new one. Do the comparison again. And continue to do that time and time again until you've gone through and done all the Compare For all the 20 different archetypes, and because what you should end up with is that you should just get it this narrowed down to one. And that that should be the archetype that you most strongly identify with. And I think that the interesting thing that I'll do with this as well, is to also test it. So what I'll do is I'll go to a co worker, somebody who works with me a lot could even be your wife could could be a friend, and just just somebody who knows you really well. But since it's about work, I usually try to recommend a co worker, give them the 20 pieces of paper, ask them to think about you and do the exercise. And at the end of it, see what the result is they come up with, because I think the other thing that often happens is that the way that we see ourselves and the way that other people see us are often and many times can be quite different. So do the exercise both ways. See how close is it and if what you come up with and what They come up with is really different. Have a discussion to understand why to understand why are these two things so very separate? And because I think you need to understand both perspectives, to build a really strong brand. But then once you have that, you have to understand that that archetype and the description that goes with it, is just the start, that you then will have to take that as a starting point and start to work towards what the people who did the I am statement did, and that you have to make it your own. That if you are like Nike, you're the achiever. What's the story that backs that up? What are the proof points that you have? What's the story that you want to tell? that backs you up as the achiever because again, this is just a starting point that you have to find a way to make it relevant to make it your story? Because the RP archetype on itself is nobody's story. So you have to find a way to be able to do that. And so if you did I am process. One of the things that I've often found is the first time I did that run through, I probably got, I don't know what 12 or 15 or 20, I had a lot of these different statements. And I felt like, Okay, this is this is my story. Well, just like with any brand, you can't have your story be made up of 20 different things, you need three or four at best. So I think that one of the things that you need to do if you did the I Am, exercise is that you need to go through needed edit this list down, you need to look for commonalities, where are there places where you can combine things together, but also you can do that same sorting exercise of what are the things that you believe the most? What are the things that are the strongest, the clearest, the most focused, that are the things that you really want to buy into. And then I think if you've done the archetype exercise, this is where what I said before, you have to go through and try to figure out how can you make these statements that support and that really reinforce the architect type that you want to be a part of. And I think honestly, like, if you want to, you can probably do both exercises at once and see how they both come out. I tend to try to keep it a little bit clear and do one or the other. But I think both are basically headed towards the same end, which is how do you get down to the three or four strongest things that set you apart? The things that you do differently, the things that just like with any brand, nobody else is going to be able to claim, or it's going to be very hard for them to claim or they're gonna be very few people that could claim something like that, that it's your individual makeup, your experiences, your strengths, things like that. Those the things that really help you start to craft that story. And you need to take those points and you need to start crafting it into a story, a story that's simple, a story that's clear, a story that has tangible proof points that back it up. Because I think that's one of the things you have to do is that you have to be able to talk about in real terms, how this is a real story because if it isn't It's not going to do what every great story does is every great story gets the readers interest. It gets their attention. It makes them want to do something it draws them in. And so if it isn't yours, and if it isn't unique, then it is generic. It is something where it falls by the wayside. Because you have to think about where do people hear your story. And most often, they hear your story in a stack of resumes. And as much as I would love to sit here and say that I give every resume the time that it deserves. I read every word I soak it in, I really take the time to kind of go through and understand each person. The reality is probably a bit different. Because I have a job that I want to hire for. And oftentimes I end up on a phone call with one to as many as 34 different recruiters who asked me to tell them what it is that I'm looking for. And I describe my team I described the role I described what it is that I'm looking for. Later that day later that week, the resumes start. And I start a folder on the desktop of my computer, where I start putting these resumes into. And then usually, whenever I feel like there have been enough there, or quite honestly, the deadline for when I said I was going to get back to people is coming up, I open these up and start going through them. And it's usually probably on the train commuting into the city. It could be sitting at home at night. But the reality is, is that your story is sitting there, alongside anywhere from 60 to 100. Other Stories, and that if the story isn't clear, and it's not good, that whenever I go through and I start that story, it's not when I'm gonna finish. And I think that's the harsh reality of this. That's why so often, the system is just broken. Because you don't ever get that feedback. You don't ever hear why you didn't get the call back. It's just sorry, they decided to go with somebody else. But it's that context is why you have to tell a clear and strong story. It's why you have to stand out from everybody else. It's why your brand has to stay relevant. Because if you don't have it, if it is just that list of generic cliched, overused, corporate buzzword bingo terms, along with a list of the places that you've worked, it's going to get passed over. Because one of the things that I've learned is that I've seen time and time again, people with the best pedigrees, they've worked at the best places. You know, they worked at some of the biggest agencies, the smartest places in the world, that a lot of times whenever I talk to them, whenever I test them, I find out that that pedigree so many times means that they probably couldn't fall off a boat and hit water. So it doesn't impress me anymore. Maybe I'm jaded, and maybe I'm just the wrong audience for that. But for me, it's the story. Some of the best people I've ever worked with were the ones that had a good story. But people look past them because they didn't have the pedigree. And I was so thankful that they made that stupid mistake. But the other thing that I'm going to do here is whenever you write your story is to also understand that there's there can be a bit of a trap. And the trap is that you want your story to be personal. You want it to be insightful, clear, strong, focused, and that it makes a great first impression. Because ultimately, that's what your brand is, is your brand is that first impression, and you never get a second chance to do that. But what that means, though, is that you have to make sure that what goes in there are the things that really matter. Because the other thing that I'll see is I'll see these stories that get polluted with a lot of stuff that doesn't drive towards where this person wants to go in their career. It's filled with personal interests and part time hobbies, and a bunch of other stuff that is interesting to you. It is emitted. To you, it will be important to me six months after you work for me that in this moment, the fact that you have a dog grooming certificate, the fact that you have a tough mudder metal, the fact that you think that for whatever reason on God's green earth that you think that faxing is a skill. These are not the things that should make up your story. These are the things that make up your hobbies. And understand that keep the two separate. There is a time and a place for them. It is not that I'm saying that these are unimportant. It is just they are important in a different context in a different time than trying to build your brand. And I know that it's so tempting to add those things. It's so tempting to want to make your brand bigger than what it is to make it look more impressive to have it be more well rounded. But the problem is, is that if it isn't real, it's just noise. And that noise comes through. And it shows the inexperience. And those are the things that you have to try to fight off is to try to make sure that your brand is clear that you can say, crisply, cleanly, what are the two or three things that really matter to you? So whenever you go to start to look for that job, you can say, does this job meet those criteria? Whenever you are working, working in your current job, you can say is what I'm doing meeting those criteria. But you can use this as the foundation to start to do all the other things that matter in your career. Because the problem is, if you don't take the time to do this, your resume is going to get passed over. You may get the interview, but you probably won't get the job. If you do get the job. It may not be the one that you're happy with because you don't necessarily know you where you want your career to go. And it's just going to keep getting harder. And it's like I said, I understand how Challenging this can be because it's a process that you have to commit to working on, even in the times when you don't need it. When your job is good when things are going well, that those are the times you're going to be tempted to let it go. But I think that that, to me has been one of the reasons why I've been so successful because I've never stopped with it. I've never given up on making sure that I had that Northstar that I had that vision of what made me happy that vision of where I wanted to go with my career that I kept just relentlessly driving towards, and that I tried not to lose sight of it. Because that was the thing that kept me moving. And so these are just the starting points to this whole career advice thing. That one of the things that we're going to do next is next we're going to move on and we're going to start talking about resumes and business cards. And then we're going to talk about how to give a good interview and then we'll do talk about some some do's and don'ts for people who have to do design portfolios. Hopefully this has been helpful. Hopefully there's some insights that you can start to use to be able to start to build your brand. Like I said, a lot of the stuff that I've talked about, you can find the archetypes you can find a lot of these things in the show notes. So if you head over to podcast, Stephen Gates comm s t PhD, comm go to episodes, look up Episode Six, you'll find it there. You have any questions? Yeah, you think I've said something that was great. You think I said something that was stupid. You have a question about this show you have something else you want me to talk about? shoot me an email, you can send it to ask at Stephen Gates calm. As I said before, if you like the show, I definitely appreciate and go over to iTunes or the Google Play Store, leave a review lets me know that people are out there and might actually value what it is that I'm saying. As usual, the boys down the legal want me to remind you that everything I talked about here and all my views are my own. They don't represent those of my present or current employers. These are just my own thoughts. And so as always, thank you for the time I know it's the only thing that we have that is a truly a real luxury and so until next time, Whenever we're back to, to talk a little bit more, stay crazy